Free-will and Destiny
1. Is it necessary that at a fundamental level reality is either about 'free will' or 'destiny'? Can't both be equally valid concepts? May be we have free-will to take individual decisions but there is perhaps a cosmic intelligence that guides us towards certain outcomes taking the role of destiny.
2. Do we have sufficient information/experience to understand the true nature of reality? Answering deep questions requires one to go even deeper in one's experience.
3. If what finally matters is 'peace of mind', is it really important to intellectually probe this question? And does an intellectual understanding of deep concepts help in achieving peace of mind, or can it take us away from that goal?
4. Circumstances are decided by destiny, but the choices that we can make is our freewill. This is similar to Ramana's teachings. Thoughts will appear in mind which is beyond our control, but which one of those, we choose to act on, is our freewill.
5. Another model suggested: freewill is individual, but the outcome that will appear as destiny, will be average of all individual's freewill, applied to existential laws. This also resembles the principles of randomness theory, where when a random equation is applied to different initial conditions, the individual trajectory may be un-deterministic, but the average of all taken together is deterministic.
6. Destiny is continuously breaking individual freewill myths, such that, he will be guided towards higher spheres of human intelligence.
7. The natural direction/design of our life is such that if our beliefs/thoughts are not aligned with Truth, we suffer. This causes us sometimes to pause and reflect and results in our evolution into gentler, wiser human beings. Free will lies in making a decision to heed such signals, reflect and improve ourselves.
8. Modern physics has brought to fore the question of determined events vs probabilistic events for even inanimate matter. Even if this is not the same as the free will debate there are certainly implications
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Ego and Attachment
1. Most conflicts happen in life because we undervalue or overvalue situations and people. It is very important to have a very balanced outlook towards life.
2. It is important to evaluate various events in an objective way and think of their larger repercussions on society before deciding on the right course of action. And even if we end up punishing someone for some reason, we should try not to harbour malice for that person after the punishment has been accorded. For example, it might have been better for Pandavas to not be dismayed on seeing Kauravas in heaven.
3. We will be able to provide better solutions to problems as we rise higher in our level of understanding. Problems cannot be solved from the same level at which they were created.
4. A statement is either true or false based on reality but cannot be dependent on current circumstances (being practical !). Does it have direct implications on our behaviour (smart/ manipulative) based on the thinking that it is being practical in today's world (kalyug !). However, there is criticism of Krishna (came in discussion also) and Chanakaya for being cunning/ smart etc.
5. Oneness of every living/nonliving (eg. atomic level). This kind of thought process helps in reduction of ego automatically. Ego is there, whenever there is more than one. If there is only one, there is no ego.
6. Three layers that exist in everyone: physical layer, mental layer and consciousness layer. If the decision comes from consciousness layer, it may be the best one, since it is not conditioned unlike the other two layers.
Perception of Reality
1. The aspect of reality we capture using our 5 sense organs is only a limited part of the whole. It is possible to develop finer senses through various Yogic techniques. This is the path of Raja Yoga. One example is our sense of vision. Our eyes can only detect changes in the picture in front and so our vision works only because our eyes actually keep moving all the time. If we can make our eyes absolutely still, we may either stop seeing anything or start seeing things that are not visible ordinarily (eg. things at a far distance or behind a wall).
2. Some of these finer senses may lead to 'superhuman' abilities, also called siddhis. However, spiritual progress does not have to necessarily go through this path. In the pursuit of Jnana, Bhakti or Karma, siddhis do not play an important role. Our finer senses get developed in other ways in these three Yogic paths.
3. Intuition is perhaps one of the important finer sense that gets developed as a result of spiritual progress through any of these paths. This ability is perhaps related to the possibility of being able to access information which is not really available in our vicinity (space/time).
4. It is important to differentiate between 'what we perceive' and 'what really exists'. Perhaps what we call reality is only what we perceive. Thats because if we start digging deeper into 'what really exists' we may not find anything other than emptiness.
How to deal with fear?
1. Before we can start dealing with fear, it is important to understand its cause or origin.
2. There are several sources which generate fear, but the most important one is perhaps attachment. We are afraid of loosing things we like and are attached to, and are also afraid of getting associated with things we don't like. And the root cause of these likes/dislikes is our unripe ego. If we can develop the ability to love with lesser attachment, it will help in dealing with this kind of fear.
3. Another cause of fear is certain kinds of memories. Phobias are a good example of this case. This kind of fear can be dealt with by using medicine or by certain Yogic practices. Medicines work better in cases of chronic phobias since in these cases the person is not in a state of mind to take up Yoga/meditation. However, for medicines to work, it is mandatory to accurately pin point the particular area in the brain or the particular chemical imbalance that is the cause of the fear. And this identification is often very tricky and inaccurate. Also, people may have multiple phobias and its not well understood how different medicines interact with each other.
4. A very effective tool to counter the above problems is to develop a deep sense of self-awareness. And this is important irrespective of the spiritual path we are following. Awareness not only helps in combating our existing psychological problems, but also in preventing new ones from getting generated.
5. Attachment is a consequence of limiting ourselves to just “me/ my” etc.
6. All are equal but some are more equal than others and can we do justice then ?
7. As we broaden our horizon to include more and more in our circle of love (!), we begin the process of detachment. The universe (existence) seems to be all interconnected and every unit has a role and an influence in it. For all entities except humans the character/ nature/ is kind of known/ fixed. Only human beings have the choice to behave in any manner. In general, every human has certain weaknesses and strengths and the path of evolution is to support each other in it so that the positive attributes can be strengthened as an individual and society. Probably that’s the motivation for such a meeting.
8. To become aware of oneself is the least one has to do with or without a formal meditation practice.
9. Fear also stems from not knowing the reality e.g. famous one - taking a rope for a snake.
10. Does social service (?) help one to evolve ? If it is being done keeping fame etc. in mind, it may only boost ego
11. Probably we may also like to discuss what is “ego” – is it is related to our wrong understanding/ perception of reality ? Do people who are more critical or have higher expectations have bigger egos ? e.g. I am trying to teach a student who is unable to grasp the concept – I lose my temper – does it imply my ego got inflated on the way ? Do more competent (?) people (in a certain sphere) have more ego ?
12. Memory plays an important role in emotional / psychological health incl. phobias/ fear etc. By reliving (going over) that experience in a controlled manner without reacting, one can get over fear etc. The question is what part of memory resides in body, if at all and what part in consciousness ?
Effect of perception on our relationships
1. How we perceive our relationships depends a lot on the mental models we hold. We are usually not attached to the things that exist externally but the picture that our mind has drawn of it. The better and clearer our mental models are, the better we will be at managing relationships. Better models of the mind also exist at various levels with the surface being that of behaviour. If we are able to predict our response to a wide range of stimuli, we would have formed a good behavioural model of ourselves. But we should not stop at this level and keep going deeper.
2. All our actions come from our thoughts and all our thoughts are a result of our feelings. So in some sense, feeling is the root of all that exists. So unless our feelings are pure, its unlikely that our thoughts and actions will be. In Jainism, this is known as Darshan-Gyan-Charitra. Now there is also a feedback loop in place which means that actions have the power to influence our thoughts and these in turn can influence our feelings. The spiritual path that proceeds from right action is termed as Karma Yoga. One can also start from the thoughts and then try to rectify feelings and actions. This path is known as Jnana Yoga. And of course one can also directly start working at the feeling level, which would be called Bhakti Yoga.
3. Relationships are not a hindrance in our spiritual path. In fact, relationships exist so that we can know ourselves in a better and deeper way.
4. We should not carry our experiences along, and attached to it. Otherwise, it will exist in our behavioral model and influence our future thoughts and decisions.
Renunciation and Relationships
1. It is very common for many spiritual traditions these days to put the sanyasis on a higher pedestal. However, there are many stories in our scriptures which show that householders have also had spiritual experiences no less than that of sanyasis. In our personal experience also we often come across several householders who have reached a very high state of calmness. What seems to matter most is inner renunciation. So it is not clear why so many spiritual traditions put so much emphasis on external renunciation. Even Ramakrishna seems to have said that making spiritual progress is extremely difficult for a householder.
2. There are also certain spiritual traditions that put lot of emphasis on a householder's life. Vaishnavism for example discourages sanyasa in general and prescribes a householder's life for most aspirants. In tantra, the physical aspects of human life are of immense importance in achieving spiritual perfection. Instead of abhorring physical pleasures, these experiences are used (under proper guidance) in order to go beyond the limitations of the material world.
3. One reason why sanyasis seem superior could be that the spiritual aspect of their life is very obvious and externally visible. But the spiritual journey of a householder is usually much harder to
appreciate.
4. What is important in this context is not to force upon ourselves a certain specific view of what is superior. What really matters is to be deeply aware of our samskaras and evaluate for ourselves the most suitable mode of life. The path we choose should be in harmony with our past experiences and take us to a higher experience.
5. During the discussion, one point came up is:- what is the 'purpose' of 'Life'. Sadhguru and many gurus have told that there is 'no' purpose of life. Some of us believe this to be true, while some of us disagree. Those who disagree, said that the purpose of life is 'self realization' or 'happiness'. This point can be taken up for discussion in future.
6. Some of us mentioned that as anyone who progresses higher in the ladder of 'self realization', discards clothes and embrace 'nakedness'. This is seen in 'Digambar' Jains tradition. 'Digambar' means "sky-clad", i.e. sky is the clothing. But this does not seems to be tradition in general. Another point of discussion.
7. Another point that came up, 'what is meant by balance in life' or 'leading a middle path'. This seems to natural extension of our discussion on 'renunciation and relationships'. Once we have understood the individual two, how to maintain 'balance' between them. This we agreed to taken as topic of discussion in next to next meeting.
Balance
1. The extent to which we are able to balance things depends a lot on our internal strength. If we are internally strong, then we will be able to handle even large external perturbations.
2. Whether a person is balanced or not depends a lot on his/her priorities. Balance essentially means devoting time/energy for things/people depending on the weight/importance they hold in our lives. If a person only cares for science and devotes his/her whole time for it, then that person is also perhaps balanced. But if a person has equal priority for work and family, then s/he should devote equal time/energy for these. Disbalance happens when our priorities are not aligned with our effort.
3. There are lot of external forces which tend to disturb our balance. One of these is undue interference from others in our personal life. To what extent should these interferences be entertained? To some extent, these interferences are good since they help us in self-analysis. We may think we are going on the right path, but may realise only because of others that we need to make corrections. But being too open to others can also lead to unnecessary waste of time/energy which could have been better utilised. But where to draw the line is a personal matter.
4. We should be master of our wishes, rather than slaves of them. We realize that many times, we become slaves of our wishes, thus losing our balance and peace of mind.
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